> Dollars are currently only in demand for short-term use in transactions
This is all currencies. You store value in debt. You spend in the hot currency.
> no one wants to hold them because they devalue and will continue to do so at an accelerating rate
Literally what Treasuries are for.
> everyone should think of their checking account as something that they pay negative real interest on for the privilege of being able to transact with the rest of the world
One, you shouldn’t be storing wealth in cash-like instruments, that’s literally using currency wrong (and has been across human history). Cash is for transacting.
But in today’s economy, you generally can find checking accounts with pay around inflation. And if it really worries you, you can buy TIPS.
> One, you shouldn’t be storing wealth in cash-like instruments, that’s literally using currency wrong (and has been across human history). Cash is for transacting.
Talk to Mr. Buffet and see what he thinks about this with his mountain of cash… Cash being just transacting might be the most insane thing I’ve read here this year, well done
I think it speaks volumes that Buffet has nowhere else to put that ~$382B in cash; that speaks more about current asset valuations ("everything bubble" [1]) more than that US cash is trash. If assets classes are inflated, US treasuries are no longer a safe haven, gold and other precious metals are overbought, where do you go? There is no immediate answer, imho, but only a slow burn as the world reconfigures around the US not being a superpower, the dollar not being a reserve currency, etc. As Workaccount2 comments downthread, "The dollar sucks but everything else sucks more. [2]"
damn shit is really bad, sky is failing, bubbles are bursting… any other clickbait I need to read up on before I go spend the last of the good days with my kid…?
coolest thing about us in the 50’s is that we’ve seen and read this shit many times before and don’t fall the “bubble du jour” or “shit’s really bad this time…” - especially readers here on HN, bubbles be bursting for yeeeears now, recession is coming, crashes are coming… genuinely am sitting here scared and shook about Buffet hoarding cash, that never happened before…
I've lived through the '00 crisis, the '08 crisis, and a global pandemic. In all cases, there were signs the event was upon us, but you won't know for sure until the event is in full swing. The advice remains the same as it always does: carry as little debt as reasonably possible, don't overextend yourself without good reason, ensure sufficient liquid reserves, maximize employment and income opportunities, and have a strong network, both professional and community. Stay healthy to the best of your ability. Humans have existed for some time, we're going to exist for a while longer. I have many people who depend on me, and I'm prepared for anything short of global unexpected nuclear conflict. As long as you care, that's half the battle. Wishing you a favorable outcome.
To be early or late is the same as being wrong, and I had a friend who lost everything trying to be right take their life when they were wrong. It is true, you have the potential to make money, and if you can afford it, who am I to stop you? But, you can also lose it all, and I hope that those who try don't. It's just numbers in a database after all. Gamble responsibly. There is always someone smarter or faster on the order book.
I would love to find a "casino winning streak" spanning 6+ years :) while you and other people talk about bubbles and gambling the rest of us are getting rich and getting ready to retire... it is what it is...
the crazy ones might put all their chips in at some point and lose it all but of course you should read perhaps earnings reports (go quarter by quarter 2025 and hit it back to say 5 years which is decent enough timeframe and then perhaps think through whether or not investing is ridiculously profitable companies with insane growth and the same as putting all your chips on black :)
maybe if another decade goes by it'll be enough to convince people that just perhaps (to steal this from someone) while every one is digging for gold you want to be the one selling shovels :)
100% - that is the case. except this current "bubble" has been "bubbling" for years now (just look at HN commenters since say 2023-ish). the funny thing is something at some point will happen and there will be a pullback in the market (it's been on a run for waaaaaay to long) and everyone will be like "hey hey hey, see, told ya so, this was bubble all along" except most people that say we are in a "bubble" cannot even define what the bubble is what will it meant for it to pop. Cisco-like?! That is too much?! Perhaps 1/2 of the Cisco!? 1/4? no one knows but for sure I am expecting (markets are that way) that whenever there is some form of pullback (large or very large or meh) HN will go nuts with "told ya so"
the funny thing is, if you were invested in this bull run, even 45% pullback (certainly possible) and say you are an idiot (or just clueless) with a stoploss - you'd still be handsomely up from where you started from...
so we were in a farm-it-by-hand bubble until we invented tractors? :)
I am not trying to disprove the bubble because that is as impossible, you can’t disprove something which doesn’t exist other than in people’s figments of imagination. and whatever happens in the future the bubble people will find a way to justify that it was a bubble all along and non-bubble people will say it is a normal market correction after yeeeears of bull market. makes the entire bubble discussion meaningless
"you can't disprove something that doesn't exist" - Great, so you believe in God then. And Russell's teapot. And a natural number called fentanum, whose successor is itself.
People born in different eras often develop different worldviews by the time they reach their 50s. Not everyone is lucky enough to be born in the "right time".
this depends on which "headlines" you are looking at... if you are right/right-leaning your headlines from a year ago are much worse than those today, sky is falling, biden opened borders, immigrants are murdering 1/2 of the population, economy is shit, eggs are $20/piece...
a year later, if you are left/left-leaning your headlines are "sky is falling, democracy is dying, corruption is through the roof, the country is hanging on by a thread..." too funny to observe what has become of America...
If you're in your 50s you should have at least noticed that things have gotten progressively worse, if not for you (e.g. working in FAANG and getting by better than ever) for the majority in all kinds of ways in those 50 years: housing costs, healthcare, jobs, public debt, private debt, it's a huge list.
So, yeah, those "shit is really bad, sky is failing, bubbles are bursting" shit has been consistently right all those years, and it will get worse.
Of course some people only grok that things are bad when it happens to them personally. 80% of the people could be coughing blood outside their door, but as long as they get their bonuses, all is fine, as far as they're concerned.
> If you're in your 50s you should have at least noticed that things have gotten progressively worse...
This is exactly what I am saying, things have gotten progressively worse. The argument most people are making here is that the worse is not progressive, that it is somehow last 11 months that shit's been going really, really bad (just note how many people are talking about "degree" and "scale" of shit in this thread alone. As if somehow sky is falling right now and it was amazing before.
funny thing is - same people back in October during the election campaign were pitching how economy is "great" and how they do not understand how GOP can run on economy platform when US economy is doing amazing, much better recovery post-COVID than any other country without a doubt. now though, economy is really bad, just horrible, can't be any worse :) in both cases, the 80% of the people you are mentioning are suffering, they were in October and they are even more so now. but everyone is in their own bubble, the "opposition" (myself included) in the current political order is saying "oh shit's really bad now" and "ruling party" people are like "oh man, how great are things, tariffs are doing their thing, exports are up, imports are way down, market is red hot..." etc...
Coolest thing about you in the 50s is that you’ve spent your grandkids’ money (and used up their resources and polluted their environments) so you wouldn’t have to face any consequences for your poor decisions.
Unfortunately your grand kids have run out of money and descendants to steal money from.
it is OK, I made enough for my grandkids and their grandkids so they'll be just fine. and all without stealing a penny from anyone (well this is a lie, I did steal a chocolate once from a grocery store to impress a girl but I think I'll be forgiven for that...)
> Talk to Mr. Buffet and see what he thinks about this with his mountain of cash
When finance types say "cash," we mean cash and cash equivalents. Berkshire Hatahway doesn't literally hold cash, they hold yield-generating cash equivalents.
> Cash being just transacting might be the most insane thing I’ve read here this year, well done
I strongly recommend a home economics course if this is the case. If you want to go deeper, anything about monetary theory
Does he really hold cash? Or does he hold TIPS for example, and people colloquially refer to it as "cash"? I assumed it's the latter since it makes much more sense.
Cash and cash equivlants are referred to in finance as cash, since they are–for all practical purposes–equal to it. Except yield generating. Which, if you're not an idiot, is how you hold cash.
Source? Every indication is that dollar-denominated financial assets are tremendously in demand. (What metric are you looking at?)
The Fed has been reducing rates while selling assets, all while U.S. public debt explodes. The Treasury is selling more debt. The Fed is selling debt. Rates went up, and then they went down. That means there is, ceteris paribus, more demand outside the Fed and Treasury than there was when Russia invaded Ukraine.
It isn't cetiris paribus, the Fed rate tells us nothing about demand because they purposefully devalue the dollar. The entire world could be refusing to accept US debt except Broke Boris and they could technically negotiate a 4% rate with just him. Assessing demand for US debt has to be linked to real goods/services/assets somewhere along the line or there just isn't anything to say. The BRICS arguably make up around 40% of the world's economy and they appear to be either slowly evacuating or less-interested in treasuries [0]. It is by no means clear that US debt demand is up or even stable.
Great time to own gold, unfortunately. I wish mine had been a bad purchase but with all the "real growth" it has been experiencing I'm probably going to need a bigger vault box.
I wish I was more sophisticated in these areas. But I'm not. My fear isn't so much reduction in USD is our American stupidity in current account deficits, and debt which is to precisely point fingers at our insipid Congress. The last gasp --- which proved to be all air --- was Paul Ryan who was gonna try to fix things. Since that time it's a combination of we didn't, and we can't, plus reactionary moves. In so doing we're just wasting our soft power here. The other head wind is trade deficits. But unlike that, our budget and it's knock on effects is more directly in control.
I once ran into Tom Keene of Bloomberg news around 2014. In discussing this his view of Washington's view was we can print whatever we want. I was surprised he didn't criticize that ... but it's stuck we me ever since.
The 10-year Treasury rate has more than doubled since 2001. I skipped Econ 101 - If you have to pay people twice as much to take your debt, is there more or less demand for it?
Extend range to "Max". Yields in 2001 -- looks like the peaked at about 5.4%. Yields today are about 4.13%.
What am I missing?
Also, this phrase... is a strange one.
> If you have to pay people twice as much to take your debt, is there more or less demand for it?
If your economy is running red hot (with relatively low inflation rate), then the central bank normally raises interest rates. Yields on central gov't debt will closely follow these rises. Controversially, I will say within a "reasonable" yield range (maybe 1% to 8%), the yield itself says very little about demand for it. Before COVID-19, Germany's 10 year gov't debt yield was frequently zero or slightly negative. Again: What does this say about demand for it? Not much.
You are mistaking owning US debt and having your debt denominated in dollars. Many foreign countries find it desirable to own US treasuries, but they don't want to borrow dollars and have a dollar-denominated debt. When that happens, and your own currency is devalued, you still owe the same number of dollars. You now have to buy these more expensive dollars to repay your dollar-denominated debt.
People want to be dollar debtors, not dollar creditors.
When I said no one wants dollars, I was referring to people's willingness to hold actual dollars or obligations that pay them dollars in the future.
Your other comment mentions the AI bubble, and also makes me think you don't understand what I'm saying, since we seem to agree about what happens to dollars and debt in a bubble.
Companies are glad to take dollars now in exchange for owing dollars in the future (something they would be less willing to do if the dollar was strong).
They then turn around and spend those dollars on GPUs and electricity.
They think they can get more done with a dollar this quarter by trading it to NVIDIA or a power company than by holding T bills.
Fed rates do not track the real demand to be a dollar creditor.
That's kind of the point, the Fed is the lender of last resort.
If no one wants to give dollars now for more later, then the Fed becomes a creditor to the treasury at an arbitrary rate.
Try that same argument with a zero coupon bond. It works fine because you don't have any coupon payments, thus no income tax until the principal is repaid at maturity.
This is all currencies. You store value in debt. You spend in the hot currency.
> no one wants to hold them because they devalue and will continue to do so at an accelerating rate
Literally what Treasuries are for.
> everyone should think of their checking account as something that they pay negative real interest on for the privilege of being able to transact with the rest of the world
One, you shouldn’t be storing wealth in cash-like instruments, that’s literally using currency wrong (and has been across human history). Cash is for transacting.
But in today’s economy, you generally can find checking accounts with pay around inflation. And if it really worries you, you can buy TIPS.