And yet, President Obama selected Joe Biden as his vice president, who also voted for the same war. Hillary Clinton did too, and she's the leading Democratic contender for 2016. Why no outrage? Because they have a D next to their names?
Are you serious? Al Gore is on various boards, including Apple. He also supported the war. Will you stop using Apple products now? You're not a hypocrite, are you?
Al Gore was appointed to the board of Apple prior to the Iraq war. Here is the Slashdot thread from when he joined, there wasn't much controversial about him at the time other than 'huh, he invented the internet':
There is a very wide bridge between having a personal opinion as a private citizen in agreeing with the war (as Gore did) and being part of a group of people who planned, orchestrated, operated & implemented two unjust and likely illegal wars.
fwiw, I don't like many of them and don't understand the whole red/blue R/D thing you guys have going on - they all seem very similar from where i'm sitting.
This matters why? Al Gore was on the board after the war started. He made his support for the war clear after his appointment and after the war had started. He wasn't in Congress, but Condeleeza wasn't in Congress too. She had as many votes as Al Gore did for the Iraq war. Why is Al Gore excused but Condeleeza not?
National Security Advisor presumably (hopefully!) has better access to information and internal assessments of the quality of various intelligence sources than does "random ex- politician".
Completely ignoring the point that Al Gore wasn't a public official at the time, let's not forget that congress was lied to just as much as the rest of the public.
That fact check shows that he didn't lie during the State of the Union address, not that the pretense for the war wasn't a lie. Certainly, it says nothing about the fact we went to war with Iraq for an attack they had nothing to do with.
Hilary Clinton is as establishment as it gets. She isn't a valid option and it would be an outrage if she were shoved down the publics throat. Elizabeth Warren is far more likely to succeed.
It's not a question of 'no outrage', it's a question of no power. In the case of Dropbox, we can actually do something they care about: stop using their service.
No sarcasm, seriously, I think both Biden and Clinton should resign from any positions they are holding. If they dont want to, we must make fire them.
But whatever, just like bankers, those who are on top obviously can not make any mistake, no matter how big or what kind of mistake, to jeopardize their income or influence in society.
But those poor people, you slip on one payment, or get caught with one joint, oh fuck god have mercy, you poor bastard. Also "whats this, B-? nah sorry brah you arent eligible for this position."
The facts have been on the record for years now. She's guilty, but there will never be a formal trial specifically because power will never turn on one of their own if there's nothing to gain.
Was there a similar outcry when she joined the Stanford faculty ? Did everyone decide to shun Stanford ? If not , I am curious why her being a faculty member was acceptable and
being on the board of Dropbox is not, since the outrage is for her being a liar and a war perpetrator and not due to her skills for the job.
She was Stanford tenured faculty (and maybe even Provost) before joining the Bush administration, and took leave to take her appointments. She then rejoined Standford later. People did complain about that, anyway.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I don't care whether Bush et. al. lied about Iraq. I'm not here to prosecute them. I have not called them war criminals.
I am disgusted by the way the Iraq war was sold to the American public. I'm disgusted by the legitimizing of torture, both legally and culturally, and I disdain anyone who was a part of that fiasco.
As a non-American living in another country at the time it couldn't have been more apparent how different the "facts" were inside the US reality distortion bubble and outside of it. E.g. in Canada we watch both US and Canadian news shows. Watching the same events reported in both gives an incredible insight into the amount of propaganda that US citizens are subject to.
Look up Knight Ridder's reporting on the run up to the Iraq war if you want to look at some good American coverage at the time.
You're accusing her of war crimes. The burden of proof is on you to prove that she is a war criminal. Cite admissible evidence only, please (not Wikipedia links). We can try her in court once you give us the evidence. You only have to meet the plausible cause standard.
I've looked at the facts. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars will be remembered as the end of the American era, unless Silicon Valley can build US 2.0. and disassociate themselves from Washington.
Considering that my normal account was permanently slowed and is apparently unable to post more than once an hour due to this thread, I'd say "hiding" is useful if one wants to express an unpopular opinion on HN, merely to retain the functionality of his normal account.
I didn't vote for Biden, and I didn't forget his pro-war stance, either.
Biden wasn't just appointed as a board member for a relevant tech corporation, though. If he was, I'd be up in arms, too.
That said, even so, Biden's role in promoting Iraq was far less than Condi's. Additionally, Biden didn't specifically push for advanced interrogation techniques AKA torture. Condi did.
Uhh, Al Gore supported the war too and he's a partner of Kleiner Perkins and a board member of Apple, a firm that has funded several Silicon Valley companies. Will you stop using those companies too?
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
Want more?
By the way, Rice never "enabled" for the war because she couldn't vote in Congress. Similar to Al Gore.
> By the way, Rice never "enabled" for the war because she couldn't vote in Congress. Similar to Al Gore.
I just... I can't fathom the idiocy of your post. My neighbor billy bob supported the war too. I guess he had the same degree of responsibility for it as Rice did, because he couldn't vote in congress.
The idiocy of your straw man is quite telling. Rice and Gore had as much pull on the public. I would say Gore had more than Rice because he was far more well known.
Agreed. It's hard to understand HN sometimes. Posts about women and minorities in tech get overwhelmingly positive comments..."we have to do anything and everything possible to get more of minority X involved in tech"...then a popular company hires a double minority and everyone loses their mind.
Stop doing that. You're being dishonest right now. This is not about sexism or racism. My co-founder and best friend of 8 years is a woman, and she had the same reaction of disgust by this move as me. This has to do with Rice's history of warmongering and condoning torture, not her sex or ethnicity.
How do you and your moronic cronies (unless it's all just you) not see that this is a completely different analogy? Gore didn't have privileged intelligence; he was deceived like the rest of us. A lot of us like Gore because he seems to have qualities that we would like to see in a government official: reasoned, intelligent, and a supporter of science. I have very little problem saying that 2000-2008 would have been a very different time had he been in the White House, rather than a bunch of neo-cons with the baggage of an Iraq obsession.
