Facing issues with 83 jobs per second (5k/min) sounds like an extreme misconfiguration. That's not high throughput at all and it shouldn't create any appreciable load on any database.
This comes up every time this conversation occurs.
Yes, PG can theoretically handle just about anything with the right configuration, schema, architecture, etc.
Finding that right configuration is not trivial. Even dedicated frameworks like Graphile struggle with it.
My startup had the exact same struggles with PG and did the same migration to BullMQ bc we were sick of fiddling with it instead of solving business problems. We are very glad we migrated off of PG for our work queues.
And as great as it is, even the "real stuff" isn't a silver bullet. In my experience stimulants remove like 25-50% of the difficulty over the long term, depending on the day, which is extremely valuable but it's far from a cure.
If the DIY work wasn't the cause for the fire it shouldn't matter, but I half-expect someone to inform me that US insurance companies can (legally) deny coverage for reasons unrelated to the accident.
Not so fast. Have you very carefully read the full small print of the insurance policy? Did you review that with a lawyer? Is incredible how different "normal" people vs. lawyers can understand a contract.
I'm pretty sure there is a clause, which states that you have to inform if you have and/or are not allowed to have fire loads, or anything that could cause a fire, or make it worse, or something along the lines in legalese. These formulations are always there because of people hoarding fuel in the basement, for example, or O2 Tank, or whatever. They are formulated in the most generic way possible to catch anything you do "wrong". Failing to follow such clauses, also when not explicitly stated, is dropping your obligations in the contract. And then there will be a clause that of course says, that not following the contract from your side, also exempts the company of paying.
Note also there are clauses that are very softly specified, like "use rooms for the intended purpose" which may be a problem if you store idk, paint in the garage, which may be flammable, in which case a fire in the garage will not be (at least fully) covered.
I am writing this off grid, using about 15kwh of batteries and a $1200 (6kw) inverter. My entire system puls panels and racking those panels, plus wiring some un-powered shacks was about $10k, though I did the work myself (which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it.
> which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it.
Yo. If you can find an electrician to stop by my house and turn a light switch off for less than 1000$, please inform me. I got a quote for 25k$ to install a system that size, and that price. City code has me by the balls: I can't modify my main panel without inspection, the inspector won't show up without a licensed electrician, and electrician wants the labor. I pointed out that we're talking 8 hours of labor — call it 2500$, lawyer money — and he was like "what's your choice". I'm in Texas.
To get a journeyman electrician license in Texas, you need to have 8000 hours of documented on-the-job experience working under a licensed electrician[1].
So you'd need to find an electrician who will let for you work them on the weekends, and if you work 8 hours every Saturday and every Sunday, then it will take you 500 weekends.
A residential wireman license only requires 4000 hours[2], but I'm not sure if that kind of license would be good enough for the inspection.
Isn't there an exclusion or lower entry requirement if you have a technical education like engineering degree? Like if not electrical engineering because I guess that would be obvious there should be lower entry bar - but for all others at least somewhat related...
I guess if you want to dabble with installing battery packs with inverters, that's not your typical bachelor of arts who is trying to do so.
Where I am at (rural CO), as long as it can be inspected and meets code, the county is fine- you don't need a blessing. Septic is different (that's a $175 certificate, though). But for electrical all you have to do is meet codes, which isn't really super hard.
This right here - I have been investigating getting my own contractor license for DIY work on a property I own that must be permitted but city will only issue permits to licensed contractors. Took a practice test for the exam on a whim and nearly passed it without studying. Anybody seriously considering DIY'ing the install of something like this probably could get a license without a lot of work.
Ha, they actually messed up a bit and I had to repair a bit of the wall / wainscoting. Because of this they knocked $100 off of the price that I listed earlier.
Hoss I am sorry to hear that- I have literally no idea what electrical costs, as I've been doing it myself. If you're living close enough to other humans that the can observe and complain, then we're not really in the same situation.
But that doesn't really change my point, does it? Like, if they are installing $6k worth of equipment and materials, then that's what the up-thread points was about paying 10K more for tesla-branded equipment, right? I get that at a certain point the labor makes the cost of materials less of a deal, but my point was that my battery+inverter+panels+material is still less than the equipment they are describing.
From what I quickly checked you can modify your own home there is an exclusion for doing electrical work on your property - seems like main panel would be somehow excluded from what qualifies as "yours".
That exemption is from the state code and applies to "work not specifically regulated by a municipal ordinance that is performed in or on a dwelling by a person who owns and resides in the dwelling".
This is still not an accurate comparison. I'm not a Tesla fanboy but of all of the major players in the non-diy game (Enphase, Franklin, Tesla, Sol-Ark) they provide the best value for money, and are impressive pieces of equipment.
The EG4 18k has 11.5 kw backfeed capability, with a rather pathetic 65ish amp in-rush. Obviously 18kw usable solar capacity(they technically let you land up to 21kw, but only 18 is usable).
The Powerwall system you outlined can take 60kw of usable solar input, has 34kw standing backfeed capability, and a whopping 555 amp in-rush (not a typo, it's 185 amps per unit).
None of those things matter when your solar array is 4.5 kW and you have a standard 150A/200A grid in....
Like I said, they basically are not sold to scale like a normal household uses electricity.
EDIT: What the heck is in-rush and backfeed? Are you talking about AC input to charge the batteries? The 18k is 50A @ 240VAC (12kW) fyi. Also, why does the charge rate even matter there? For the AC output its also 12 kW...the family is average 48 kWh days, which is 2 kW hourly average...
Inrush is exactly what it says it is, it's inrush current. When you have a sudden surge on something, that's inrush. Lots of appliances in your home have a large inrush, much larger than the breaker they're on. Inrush happens faster than a breaker trips, which doesn't matter when you're on the grid and the inrush is lower than your mainbreaker, it matters when you have an inverter in the way with a passthrough limit and an inrush limit. Typical central HVAC units have LRA over 100 amps.
If we're talking about 'doesn't even matter with a 4kw array' well, hell, how the hell you gonna charge ~40kwh of battery with solar array that nominally produces 20kwh a day on its best day, assuming all conditions are perfect?
Backfeed is what the inverter can push out from the battery to the home. It's the size of the tube coming from the gallons of water reservoir. EG4 18k has a tiny tube, no matter how much battery you put on it. Like emptying a 50 gallon drum with a drinking straw(and with the 4kw array, filling it with a 12 oz cup).
> Inrush is exactly what it says it is, it's inrush current
These are not terms commonly used in the industry, thanks for the clarification.
> Lots of appliances in your home have a large inrush, much larger than the breaker they're on.
And inverters are designed to compensate for short term surges too fyi. The 18k provides 65A for a few seconds as an example.
> well, hell, how the hell you gonna charge ~40kwh of battery with solar array that nominally produces 20kwh a day on its best day, assuming all conditions are perfect?
Because you can't and don't need to...you should be asking the author of the original post, because they do what pretty much every other grid tied system which is that you pass through the power from the grid.
> Backfeed is what the inverter can push out from the battery to the home.
> It's the size of the tube coming from the gallons of water reservoir. EG4 18k has a tiny tube, no matter how much battery you put on it.
1. The 18k can push 50A on each leg and most residential are sized at 150a or 200A, which are ridiculously oversized, so at most, even with two EVs and a 4 ton AC running in Texas, I max out at 150A. I can put 3 18k's in parallel if I really want to and its STILL cheaper than a powerwall battery/inverter combo.
2. There is no reason to have a "pipe" so large that it only is used for less than 5% of the overall runtime. This is why the powerwall setup doesnt make any sense.
>These are not terms commonly used in the industry, thanks for the clarification.
It's such an industry term that it's literally a named feature on multimeters.
>The 18k provides 65A for a few seconds as an example.
Yes, you'll see I gave you that spec in the opening comment. It's not a good spec for a whole home hybrid inverter.
>the 18k can push 50A on each leg and most residential are sized at 150a or 200A
That's not how you read a spec sheet for 240v device. A home service is 200 amp, at 240v. That's 48kw potential. 12k is 12k regardless of whether that's (120v * 50a) + (120v * 50a) or (240v * 50a). The legs aren't cumulative. You're implying the standing load capacity is somehow higher than its inrush capacity. It would need to be a 24kw (on the ac side, all of the janky chinese rebrand inverters all list their DC input to try to make themselves seem bigger) inverter to do what you're implying.
(50a * 120v) + (50a * 120v) = 12kw
A small home with a smaller 150 amp service is (150a * 240v), 36kw.
Edit: screw it, I'll address this as well -
>There is no reason to have a "pipe" so large that it only is used for less than 5% of the overall runtime. This is why the powerwall setup doesnt make any sense.
There sure is! The whole point is to offset usage. 50 amp standing load capacity means you can only ever offset 50 amps of usage at one time. Sure, most homes don't hold anything higher than that for long but I've seen plenty of homes hold over 20kw for a bit if they have pool pumps, well pumps, pool heaters, or any number of things going on. Any time the home draws more than 12kw instantaneously you'd be getting charged peak rates, which could be avoided with a larger standing load capacity. In addition, if you're in a municipality with a 'demand' rate you could enter in to a different billing rate any time you go over a certain amperage, meaning that ability to offset more of that in that instance, even just for an inrush, could make an even larger difference on your bill.
Look man, I run an $800 chinese inverter, and my batteries are MuRatas I harvested from decommissioned Sonnen cabinets that I rewired with chinese BMSes. The Powerwall 3 is a really good product and the pricing is great compared to comparable non-diy consumer grade products. The EG4 is not a good comparison point because it has nowhere near the spec or capability. You would need 3 EG4 18ks to have the inrush capability of a single Powerwall 3. Battery capacity (volume) is not the sole determining factor in value. This isn't even relevant but just as an aside, the EG4 isn't even a good value for the DIY scene, and has functionally the same support as rebranded drop shipped Chinese inverters.
I'd love to know why you'd choose an EG4 18k (which is actually a 12k AC inverter, with a questionable track record on support and warranty) over a Sol-Ark 15k (which is actually a 15K AC inverter, and has tech support that responds) now that Sol-Ark dropped the price on 15ks to sub $5,000 MSRP.
I'd rather land wires in a Sol-Ark, it has better support, it has a higher AC output, it has a higher battery charge rate, and it's the same price.
Yes, 48 amps at 240 is 11.5kw. Each Powerwall 3 is 11.5kw(edit: not to be confused with its capacity which is 13.5 kwh, one is a power output, one is a storage capacity. Just so you don't go thinking that's some amazing mixup between the comments). The original comment is all within your framework of 3 Powerwalls vs one EG4 18K with 3 batteries. That's 12kw AC for the EG4, and 34.5kw on 3 Powerwalls. I've never stated a single powerwall has more output than that(hell I even rounded down on the output of the 3 powerwalls to 34kw), only that they have a very impressive inrush and solar capacity. The incongruity of the comparison between the two systems is the entire origin of this discussion. Do you even remember what you posted and I responded to? You don't know how to use an amp clamp and don't understand the American split phase power grid. Stop consulting ChatGPT for 'gotchas' and actually read what you're writing.
Just to be perfectly clear on your continued misunderstanding - each powerwall is also an inverter, it has its own AC power output. That stacks. The batteries strapped to the EG4 are all limited to going through the EG4. That means no increased output for adding more batteries. No stack.
With 3 EG4s in the comparison you would have a similar standing load capability(36kw claimed), however you'd still only have roughly 1/3rd the inrush capability(190 amps).
Honestly, I thought I started this conversation nicely enough and went out of my way to be informative and you've only tried to insult me and be snide while having the loosest grasp on the subject matter.
You keep throwing out specifications without understanding their real life installation use cases and then go as far as to make claims like "EG4 support is bad for DIY'r" which is so far from the truth it's hard to take anything you say seriously. There are hundreds of thousands of forums and YouTube videos from DIY who rave about EG4. In fact Sol-ark has a sketchy support track record (source - several installers I work with)
> The original comment is all within your framework of 3 Powerwalls vs one EG4 18K with 3 batteries. That's 12kw AC for the EG4, and 34.5kw on 3 Powerwalls.
And for the last time, you do not need 34.5kW continuous AC output for a house that is averaging 2 kW per hour per day. Yes, they have two EVs, but also these do not need to charge at their full potential if you plug them in every night. The author isn't generating enough energy from solar of their battery bank so it's pulling from the grid anyway for those loads, so a grid bypass (which EG4 supports up to 200A) means you don't need the inverter to pump out 34.5 kW to loads anyway.
The thing you keep glossing over is that the fundamental problem with a powerwall for scaling systems is that each battery bank you purchase requires you to purchase a built in inverter. The same nearly identical system from EG4 is an 18k + 15 kWh battery which costs $8k, and powerwalls cost $12k+. Thats a 50% premium to get you 185 LRA but 8 kWh less capacity. For an extra $250 you get an AC soft start and a 185 LRA is completed unnecessary and irrelevant.
> Yes, 48 amps at 240 is 11.5kw.
You keep saying these things like I don't understand the math.
> You don't know how to use an amp clamp and don't understand the American split phase power grid.
Lol. And you don't even understand that specifications ratings because they very explicitly say the amps at VAC ratings (120/240) because while it's entirely possible to reach the full potential of wattage... in real life, it's unlikely you will due to how split phase works with inverters. Inverters are rated by amps per leg because your loads on one 120v leg could be higher than the other one (unless all of your loads are 240v in which you would always be using the same amps on both legs).
So to conclude:
1. An identical system is $53k (Powerwall) versus $31k (EG4), which is still hilariously overpriced.
The only measurable differences are:
EG4 gets 6 more continuous AC amps (up to 1.44 kW more)
Powerwall gets much higher surge capacity (555A vs 195A)
EG4 gets 8 kWh more capacity
2. If you need more than 195A surge, you put a soft start in or just let the inverter bypass temporarily to grid.
3. You would never size this system with 3 inverters for someone averaging 48 kWh/day, so the author spent £7k on an additional battery and got an unnecessary inverter purchase which is now directly eating into his ROI.
>You keep throwing out specifications...
>And for the last time...
Well, neither of these are relevant to my original comment. I never commented on the value prop of the original install, only that your comparison in pricing is just not accurate as one is much more capable. Yes, lots of people want 34kw of standing load, because they want to ensure the offset of their HVAC unit. Generally people getting these systems have ridiculous homes, I've worked on a home with 3 20kw diesel generators. I've worked on a home with a seperate 200 amp service just for their pool side projector TV. Just because someone's wants aren't reasonable doesn't mean they don't want it.
>There are hundreds of thousands of forums and YouTube videos from DIY who rave about EG4.
EG4 sucks to try to pry anything out of. I don't actually like Sol-Ark that much either, but they're better to deal with and a better deal. Best deal is just to get an SRNE or similar straight from the source. Again, I paid $800 for my SRNE. I could get a second and parallel it and be outperforming the EG4 for a $3,400 discount. Youtubers are youtubers, not a source of truth. All those same youtubers shill battle born, too...
>Lol. And you don't even understand that specifications ratings because they very explicitly say the amps...
I'm not the one that has conflated two 50 amp phases with a 100 amp service. That's a 50 amp service. 12kw is 12kw. I keep repeating the math because you clearly keep misunderstanding it. A small electric range is typically on a 240 50 amp circuit, incredibly common in most households, and that's a small one.
>Identical system.
How is this identical? $5K for all other labor and materials? How much you paying per foot for the Class K to parallel the batteries? What's the homerun distance on the PV? Your AHJ require metal conduit on the DC runs inside the attic? Shit, if they require a 3R lockable lever disco that's $900 right there before fuses. What you penetrating with? What racking system you using? Shingle or metal roof? If shingle you doing the labor to pull shingles and put in flashing or you hacking it up with some HUGS/RT Minis? What's your max span between mounts given the wind load? S-5!s and HUGs add up fast when you can't get away with a large span. What's your interlock method? If you're landing in the MSP are you derating the mainbreaker? You value your time so little after all that material that you're still under $5k?
Edit: Also, you're gonna be paying a whole lot for LTL on that partial pallet of panels and 14' (if you get the short stuff) racking.
> Yes, lots of people want 34kw of standing load, because they want to ensure the offset of their HVAC unit.
The author of the post lives in the UK and averages 2kW load, a 4 kW PV system, and 45 kWh battery system. It's literally impossible for them to run a standing load of 34 kW for more than 1.5hrs without a grid tie. Why do you keep ignoring this?
AI-generated implementation with AI-generated tests left me with some of the worst code I've witnessed in my life. Many of the passing tests it generated were tautologies (i.e. they would never fail even if behavior was incorrect).
When the tests failed the agent tended to change the (previously correct) test making it pass but functionally incorrect, or it "wisely" concluded that both the implementation and the test are correct but that there are external factors making the test fail (there weren't).
Because most people don't work on public projects and can't share the code publicly?
What's more interesting is the lack of examples of non-trivial projects that are provably vibe-coded and that claim to be of high-quality.
I think many of us are looking for: "I vibe-coded [this] with minimal corrections/manual coding on a livestream [here] and I believe it to be high-quality code"
If the code is in fact good quality then the livestream would serve as educational material for using LLMs/agents productively and I guarantee that it would change many minds. Stop telling people how great it all is, show them. I don't want to be a naysayer, I want to be impressed.
I'm considering attempting to vibe code translate one of my XNA games to javascript and recording the process and using all of the latest tools and strategies like agents and .md files and multiple LLMs etc
> If AI can take all the crap code humans are writing and make it better, that sounds like a huge win.
This sort of misunderstanding of achievements is what keeps driving the AI mania. The AI generated an algorithm for optimizing a well-defined, bounded mathematical problem that marginally beat the human-written algorithms.
This AI can't do what you're hyping it up to do because software optimization is a different kind of optimization problem - it's complex, underspecified, and it doesn't have general algorithmic solutions.
LLM may play a significant role in optimizing software some day but it's not going to have much in common with optimization in a mathematical sense so this achievement doesn't get us any closer to that goal.
I think I know what they mean, I share a similar experience. It has changed, 3.5 couldn't even attempt to solve non-trivial tasks so it was a 100% failure, now it's 70%.
Do you think they're stupid and just don't realize that they pay for it with taxes?
You're not factoring in the most critical piece of financing - the mental burden. You don't want to be stuck figuring out how to get enough money to pay for mental health services when you need them the most. That's when your earning potential is at its lowest, and every minor obstacle to getting help gets magnified ten fold.
That may as well be a death sentence unless you're privileged enough to be able to easily pay for it with savings. Realizing that you need help, figuring out how to access it, and actually following through is hard enough as it is without any added financial burden.
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